Wednesday, June 19, 2013

Genre-Gender Prejudice, Ninja News, Wednesday Movie Quote, and Movie Review

Today, Damyanti at Amlokiblogs is doing a special feature for CassaFire and posting a very short excerpt. If you enjoy snarky exchanges between men and women, check it out.

And she is looking for other books to feature! Check out the details at the A to Z Blog.

Ninja News

Miss Jack posted a wonderful review of CassaStar HERE. And it made her cry! I feel bad…

Men of Foxwick by Cherie Reich is now available! This fantasy short story collection features five men from the Kingdom of Foxwick.

A blind teen seeks a place in the kingdom. A dragon seer journeys to Wintermill to spy on the queen. A sword master’s worst fear comes true when he fails to protect the royal family. A king falls in love with an herb witch, but will she feel the same way? A hunter will rise to the challenge to hunt down a man-eating monster.

For more information about Men of Foxwick, please visit Cherie Reich’s BLOG. Also, Cherie has a special announcement for her email newsletter subscribers. Click HERE to sign up for her updates and receive a coupon for a free copy of Women of Foxwick.

Genre-Gender Prejudice

In the past week, I’ve read several posts regarding bias towards women in science fiction.

One was from a best-selling science fiction author. She described the horrible manner in which she was treated by fellow authors at several major Cons. (And as a result of that post, she received numerous vile threats from male readers.) Another post by Paul Anthony Shortt talked about a similar situation and disrespect towards women.

I don’t understand that attitude. First, I know many women who write outstanding science fiction stories. A good story is a good story, no matter who wrote it. Second, disrespecting women is just wrong. Yes, I am old-fashioned – men are to honor, protect, and cherish women. I don’t understand men who treat women like they were beneath them. It bothers me this happens anywhere, but it especially worries me as it’s in the genre I write.

It’s not the only prejudice in science fiction either. There seems to be a line between the hard core/high tech and the other science fiction genres. Maybe it’s because I don’t write in them, but I don’t see that kind of division in other genres.

What do you think about the general disrespect towards women authors? Is it in all genres? Are there divisions in your genre?

Wednesday Movie Quote

Today’s genre – animal movies.

I selected this genre for something different – and painted myself into a corner. I realized when looking for a quote, I’m not a fan of animal movies. I liked Planet Earth, but you really can’t pick a quote from that series. So, I opted for something I at least knew…

From Babe:

“That’ll do, pig.”

Next week – superhero films!

Movie Review

Pontypool
Recently checked out a movie that was said to be a fresh take on the zombie genre. It’s a psychological thriller in which a deadly virus infects a small Ontario town. Most of the story takes place in a radio station, where a grizzled, surly DJ (great character actor Stephen McHattie) has just recently been hired.
The DJ, producer and engineer make up the bulk of the film which is told in a style similar to The War of the Worlds radio program from 1938. The action and gore take place off screen, we hear about it as the DJ interviews eyewitnesses and his reporter in the field. Sounds dull, but the director pulls it off very well, with unsettling music and great performances.
That was the good news. The bad news is the "big reveal" near the last third of the film. The reason why everyone is turning into crazed, flesh eating killers is... intriguing as an idea but ultimately absurd and completely unbelievable. No spoilers here - check it out and decide for yourself.

Excited about Cherie’s new book? What is your favorite animal movie quote? (Do you have a favorite animal movie or were you kind of screwed, like me?) Have you seen Pontypool? And what’s your take on the bias and prejudice?

Don’t forget to visit Amlokiblogs!

139 comments:

Patsy said...

If a person won't read a book because of the gender of the author they're going to miss a lot of good writing.

Francis Lee said...

Pontypool is not bad at all, just a new direction. Can't believe what happened to the female author , what assholes!

A Daft Scots Lass said...

I think that's why a lot of writers choose a Pseudonym.

Sheena-kay Graham said...

Prejudice is sad anywhere and disrespecting women is just rude! If you only want to read books by men go read them, leave female writers alone. Pontypool sounds interesting... Will check out those blogs chatting up CassaStar. Don't feel too bad Alex, tears can be therapeutic. Congrats Cherie.

T. Drecker said...

Huh. I've been seeing all sorts of posts about how women writers seem to be taking over several genres. Interesting that there's a totally different problem in science fiction. It's hard to believe people get worked up over a gender issue - amazing.

jaybird said...

Mean people suck. I'm sad and disheartened to hear how that Sci- Fi author was treated at Cons. Don't understand why or how it makes a difference who writes the material, if the story is good, who cares? Why make gender an issue when it need not be.



Sean McLachlan said...

There's a huge controversy going on in SFWA right now about this very subject. It started with some female writers complaining about a chainmail bikini on the cover of the SFWA bulletin, then snowballed when two male writers wrote an editorial that basically called them Nazis and told them to shut up. It has continued to snowball.

Em-Musing said...

The world and women need more men like you, Alex. I don't understand genre prejudice either. And re the pig line? I think I might have said that to a boyfriend once. Obviously the relationship didn't work. Oops! Just showed my prejudice, now didn't I?

Annalisa Crawford said...

Gender-genre prejudice works the other way too - there are several men writing romances who have to use a female pen name because they wouldn't be taken seriously. It's sad because everyone has something unique to bring to their chosen genre.

Jo said...

I just bought Men of Foxwick, love the Foxwick stories. Gender discrimination is still with us in all walks of life, not just in writing. I believe many men are still frightened of women with brains.

Loved Babe, and the farmer who said That'll do, pig. Didn't enjoy the sequel.

Jemi Fraser said...

Sadly prejudice/bias exists in a lot of places. As an aspiring romance writer I've experienced it from other writers - I don't let it bother me. I've also heard men who write romance experience it from some female writers. I've also always been a sci-fi/fantasy fan and it's bizarre how some people are either shocked or offended that I know things they don't expect me to know. It's weird.

Liz Fichera said...

I wasn't aware of gender bias in ScFi.

I am, however, aware of it in literary fiction vs. women fiction. A man writes a story about relationships/a character's feelings, etc., it's called literary fiction. A woman does it and it's shelved as chick lit.

I'm with you: a good story is a good story, regardless of who wrote it.

Optimistic Existentialist said...

Wwo I didn't realize that female science fiction authors caced such prejudice...that's really sad in the year 2013 isn't it??

Alex J. Cavanaugh said...

Patsy, yes they will.

Fran, you called it!

Lass, probably.

Sheena-kay, I still feel bad...

Sean, I hadn't heard about that.

Leigh, no, some men are pigs.

Jemi, I know so many women who are science fiction geeks and it stuns me that would surprise anyone now.

TL Conway said...

It makes me sad to read about the gender bias in science fiction. The commenter a few people above me made a very good point about lit fic / sci fi as well.

To be honest, this issue wasn't my primary motivation to use initials for my writing name, but it was something I considered.

And the Men of Foxwick sounds great! I never got the hang of short stories.

Brian Miller said...

discrimination is alive and well in our work...prejudice...it just depends on the flavor of the group...it does not surprise me...though it is sad...

“Why did you do all this for me?' he asked. 'I don't deserve it. I've never done anything for you.' 'You have been my friend,' replied Charlotte. 'That in itself is a tremendous thing.”
=charlotte's web

Terri Rochenski said...

Interesting - I never noticed prejudice. For me if the book is well written, who the heck cares who wrote it?? A good story IS a good story. Period.

Terri Rochenski said...

Interesting - I never noticed prejudice. For me if the book is well written, who the heck cares who wrote it?? A good story IS a good story. Period.

mshatch said...

Some day maybe people will stop behaving badly - I hope!

I'm not much of a fan of animal movies either, unless they're in cartoons. For some reason Donkey (Shrek) came to mind, and the cat...damn they were funny!

Elsie Amata said...

For once, ignorance is bliss. I wasn't aware of gender bias. This is probably because I am so new to the writing community. As a reader, if I love the book, I don't care if it's a male or female who wrote it.

I'm not a big fan of animal movies. Msmatch brought up one of my favorite cartoons though. Shrek was awesome!!

Alex J. Cavanaugh said...

Brian, well said!

Marcy, I almost resorted to an animated film for my quote.

Jeremy [Retro-Z] said...

Pontypool... great film, I found it to be a better film than the American version "Dead Air"...

All the best to Cherie on her success... and everyone one striving forward to their own success...

Yes, got that from a fortune cookie.

Jeremy

J. A. Bennett said...

I've already seen Men of Foxwick on a few blogs looks good!

Jill Haugh said...

You are just an officer AND a gentleman, Cap'n.

~Just Jill

SA Larsenッ said...

Huh? I had no idea about the prejudice in Sci Fi. That was very interesting to read.

Pat Hatt said...

The predjudice must be because they are geeks that can't get any so hate women? lol stupid anyway.

Chance: I can't believe I'm running from a cat!

Shadow: I won't tell if you won't.

Chance: Of course, this isn't your ordinary housecat. This is like Arnold Schwarzen-kitty!

Fat Guy: Here, kitty kitty kitty kitty.

Sassy: "Here, kitty kitty kitty." Not on your life, chubby.

Fat Guy: Here, kitty kitty. Here, kitty. Here, kitty kitty kitty.

Sassy: No, dummy dummy dummy dummy.

Man O' Clay said...

Yes, a good story is a good story. One of my all-time favorite fantasy writers is L'Engle. She was amazing. Most prejudice is born from fear - not sure what those guys are afraid of, but a smart girl can be intimidating if you're a small, small man...

Rawknrobyn.blogspot.com said...

That's discouraging to read about a gender bias in sci-fi. I think that kind of thing comes down to two things: small minds and jealously. If that woman author hadn't achieved her level of success for strong writing, nobody would've taken issue with her gender.

Winnie the Pooh to Piglet: "If there comes a day when we can't be together, keep me in your heart. I'll stay there forever."

Be well, Alex.
xoRobyn

michelle said...

The last place I expected to find any prejudice/bias was in the writing community... *sighs*
Congrats to Cherie!

Writer In Transit

Charles Gramlich said...

It is horrible when anyone is mistreated within the ranks of a genre they love. There are a lot of assholes in the world.

Rick Daley said...

Babe!

For me, gender bias is a head scratcher. A good book is a good book, period. I don't care about the genetalia of the author, and don't see why anyone would.

Rachel Schieffelbein said...

Lovely cover, Cherie. :) The book sounds great!
Alex, I read a lot of those posts, too. And I was shocked. Never would have guessed there would still be those kinds of issues in today's age. I would imagine it is hard when it's your genre, and when you're a guy. ;) No one would ever think you'd be part of the negativity. :)

Doralynn Kennedy said...

Good for you Alex. There was a time when I thought we actually had a chance to get away from prejudices like gender bias and racial bias, but it's gotten worse again.

Madeline Mora-Summonte said...

Oh, I loved "Babe"! :)

"Pontypool" sounds interesting. Saw "Dark Skies" last week - good and creepy.

Lexa Cain said...

Congrats on the feature and review of your books, Alex! Congrats to Cherie, too.

I'm afraid I'm perplexed rather than alarmed by complaints of gender bias. The women who are complaining must be young and sheltered to not have run into prejudice before this. Prejudice is everywhere, just beneath the surface of false civility, and people belittle others based on gender, race, religion, sexual preference and ethnicity all the time. Since you can't force people to be good human beings, I'm sure gender bias and harassment at SF-Cons (and everywhere else) won't go away anytime soon.

Cherie Reich said...

Thank you so much for featuring Men of Foxwick today, Alex! You're the best!

And I know exactly what you mean about the genre gender bias in science fiction. Although I'm not sure a couple of the bad reviews I got on my sci-fi work has to do with being a woman, I know it has to do with the divide between hard sci-fi/soft sci-fi. They acted like if you don't write hard sci-fi, then it's not science fiction. *rolls eyes*

Thank you, Sheena-kay!

Aww, thank you, Jo! I hope you enjoy the collection!

Thank you, TL!

Thanks, Jeremy! :)

Thanks, J.A.!

Thanks, Michelle!

Thank you, Rachel!

Leovi said...

As a child I loved animals movies were my favorites!

Sandra Almazan said...

I'm part of an organization called Broad Universe which is dedicated to promoting women writers of fantasy, science fiction, and horror. Some of the things we do include networking, organizing readings at cons and other events, and discussing topics like this. (You can be sure the SFWA Bulletins were discussed on the mailing list.) We welcome both men and women. To learn more about us, check out the webpage at www.broaduniverse.org. (We also have a page on Facebook too.)

S.K. Anthony said...

I haven't been around on the Internet much lately so I've missed seeing those posts, that really sucks! I write in light sci-fi and I know no matter what I do I'll get bashed, its all part of the game. But for other authors to act this way is just ugly and sad :(

Heather M. Gardner said...

Excellent post today.

Yes, I do think there are gender prejudices in most genres.
I agree with your take, a good story is good no matter who tells it, but we might be the exception to the rule.
How many women will buy a romance novel written by a man?
I think its hypocritical to think that women write romance about sensitive guys but then assume a sensitive guy couldn't write their own romance.

And Sci-Fi? It's for everyone. No gender necessary.

I'm off to find an animal quote that doesn't suck. :)

HMG

Sherry Ellis said...

I love the cover on Men of Foxwick! Very cool!

Scribbles From Jenn said...

I love Rafiki's quote from the Lion King: "Oh yes, the past can hurt. But from the way I see it, you can either run from it, or... learn from it."

Yes, I am excited for Cherie and her new book.

Melissa said...

That's despicable. Sure, specific genders write certain genres better than others (probably more to do with their intended audience than anything--ex: females/romance), but that is a generalization and definitely not an excuse to treat someone with disrespect.

I'm a science nerd, and I'm way more practical and analytical than the average female. I'm also mechanically inclined. I floored nearly the entire house and miter-cut the shoe molding all by myself. Bring it on, guys. :P

Off to buy a copy of Men of Foxwick...


Bossy Betty said...

That'll do, Alex. That'll do.

ilima said...

I love Babe. And I like your excerpt on Damyanti's blog. Cute back and forth.

I read about all that sci-fi drama last week. I have a degree in physics, so most of my college classes consisted of me and several hundred guys. Slight exaggeration, but I definitely felt in the minority and sometimes treated inferior. So sad. :( This does make me wonder if guys feel this way if they write, for example, romance???

Michael Offutt, "Johnny on the Spot" said...

I must look up Pontypool! Thanks for the recommendation. I don't need to check out the excerpt on Damyanti's blog as I've read CassaFire.

If you have any other zombie-related stuff that I haven't heard of, please send it my way. I'm addicted to watching zombie shows.

Regarding the disrespect of women, I hadn't heard of this. It's terrible that anyone gets treated badly.

LD Masterson said...

Being nasty to anyone for any reason is wrong. But you touched on something when you said "men are to honor, protect, and cherish women." I certainly don't disagree with that and I tried to install that concept in my sons, but some men see it as a reason not to accept women as peers. A gender that needs to be protected and taken care of can't be equals so their work must be inferior and unacceptable. It's wrong but it's out there.

I think you hit on the perfect animal movie quote.

Roland D. Yeomans said...

I love Patricia Brigg's MERCY THOMPSON series. I am saddened to learn of the bigotry in Sci Fi conventions. PONTYPOOL I recommended long ago as a new twist on the zombie genre. I enjoyed it for the new angle it put out and for trying to trigger thought in the audience.

Elizabeth Spann Craig/Riley Adams said...

Most of the stories I've heard on the subject have been from the SF/F community...which surprised me when I heard about it. But I also think that SF/F does a great job of policing this type of thing and exposing/denouncing it--exactly what you've done here, Alex. :)

~Sia McKye~ said...

I enjoyed Babe. My son liked Homeward Bound and he loved Chance. I loved one of Chance's quotes when being chased by Sassy, the cat, "this isn't your ordinary housecat. This is like Arnold Schwarzen-kitty!"

I haven't a clue as to why there is so much snark in sci-fi. Unfortunately, the prejudice exists.

I've seen the officious pronouncements by high geek authors and readers of what makes it sci-fi and what is fantasy/space operas. Stupid, imo.

I've read both styles and it depends upon the story. I don't care how great the gadgets and think tank mentality is; if it's not a good story, forget it.

Many women who wrote/write sci-fi (and for some high fantasy, too) use initials for their name rather than identifying themselves as women. There are men who won't pick up a sci-fi written by a woman and so if you want the market then androgynous author name is best.

I like the title of Cherie's book.

Sia McKye OVER COFFEE

Carrie-Anne said...

I know a lot of male romance writers and female hard sci-fi and high fantasy writers tend to use initials or pseudonyms, which seems kind of like kowtowing to sex-based stereotypes and prejudice. Sometimes it seems like society hasn't come very far since the 1950s, in spite of all the progress that's been made in other areas.

Crystal Collier said...

Ooh, you have an excerpt up? Okay, I'm off to check that out.

A.J. Walker said...

The protagonist in my first fantasy novel is a woman, and this is one of the reasons I decided to use my initials. I'm a guy.

Melissa Bradley said...

You know how I feel about bias toward women. ;) I think any bias is just plain wrong. We are all writers and craters of fantastic tales, we should all respect each matter no matter what we write.

Can't do animal movies as I'm not a big fan, though I do like Black Beauty. "People aren't only cruel to horses, they are cruel to each other."

Rachna Chhabria said...

Not reading a book because of the gender of the author is so silly. The biased person is missing out on a good book. I have heard that some Mills and Boons are written by male authors.

YVONNE LEWIS: said...

I think it's stupid not to read a book because of the author's gender,
I mean George Elliot was a woman I wonder if that was the case all those years ago,?

Great post as usual, plenty going on.
Yvonne.

Robin said...

John Grogan: [To Marley] You know how we're always saying what a pain you are, you're the world's worst dog, don't believe it, don't believe it for one minute because you know we couldn't find a better dog, I love you, more than anything, you're a great dog, I love you. ~Marley & Me

Alex J. Cavanaugh said...

Jeremy, at least someone got something good from a fortune cookie.

Thank you, Jill!

Pat, funny quote! And for that reason they should be thankful to even be around a woman.

Man O Clay, good observation.

Robyn, good quote!

Charles, there are, unfortunately.

Rachel, I'm definitely not. And I know far more women that write science fiction than men.

Cherie, I've experienced the same thing.

Sandra, thanks - I will!

SK, you write it anyway.

Jenn, good quote.

Melissa, you are free to come to my house and fix anything.

Betty, that made me laugh!

Ilima, you have to wonder.

Michael, I'll see if I can come up with more.

LD, women were made from Adam's rib so they would be our equal.

Elizabeth, I'm trying.

Sia, good quote. And space opera is still science fiction in my book. (Literally!)

AJ, do you think that decision made a difference in the long run?

Melissa, good quote.

Cherie Reich said...

Thank you, Sherry!

Aww, thanks, Jenn! :)

Thank you so much, Melissa! I hope you enjoy the collection!

Thanks, Sia! The title went well with the first collection (Women of Foxwick). ;)

Robin said...

Now, about the problems with women writing sci fi... I totally believe it. That is the reason many women who write in what are "perceived" to be male genres often use a first initial or possibly a first and second initial with a last name. They often do not write with an openly female name. I am not sure I would even attend a Comic Con event until my books hit a level of acceptance that I knew that wouldn't happen. Why do think J.K. Rowling published the Harry Potter series as J.K.???? It is because of all the woman haters out there my friend. Many people think a woman cannot write about a male protagonist or a good sci fi, thriller, crime, or even sci fi fantasy story. There is a lot of hate and divisiveness out there.

RaShelle Workman said...

"First, I know many women who write outstanding science fiction stories. A good story is a good story, no matter who wrote it. Second, disrespecting women is just wrong. Yes, I am old-fashioned – men are to honor, protect, and cherish women." ~ This is why you are the rockinest blogger on the planet.

And I agree. Wholeheartedly.

I also know there is a bit of prejudice toward guys writing romance/new adult novels. Not any kind of "vile threats" but just women won't buy those kinds of books if they're written by men. It's enough that a lot of male authors use their initials and so on.

Which is nuts because like you said, "a good story is a good story."

Great post, Alex!!!! =)

Arlee Bird said...

I'm not generally an animal movie fan, but I can get suckered in if I get into the story and presentation. Babe was fun.

I wonder if male romance writers get treated differently since it seems most romance is written by women? There shouldn't be any snubbing if the author writes well and especially if they sell a lot of books.

Lee
A Faraway View

Julie Dao said...

It's sad that gender still plays such a huge role. I don't understand why some people just can't appreciate a book for what it is. Back in the day, a woman had to write under a male pseudonym to get anywhere. I know a male writer friend who uses his initials instead of his full name to avoid prejudice based on the genre he writes. It's really sad that this is still happening. I give props to the female sci-fi author who posted about her experience. It's a brave thing to do and a necessary one.

Elizabeth Seckman said...

"That'll do pig" love it! One of my fave lines. I used to say it all the time until I said it working amongst a few ladies who were rather large and they didn't get the film reference nor the humor. They are probably still saying I'm a witch with a B.

I write romance, so there is a total respect for women there. We make fun of men who try, especially that Nick Sparks fella...what's he thinking? A man writing romance.

VikLit said...

Babe is a good choice!

Alex J. Cavanaugh said...

Robin, good quote! And it's sad that they have to use initials to be accepted. The author whose blog I read about the cons is a best selling author and they still treated her like dirt.

RaShelle, thanks! I just don't see why gender matters.

Lee, apparently they do.

Julie, there were about five hundred comments of encouragement by the time I saw her post.

Elizabeth, now he's laughing all the way to the bank. And I thought that was funny.

Christine Rains said...

Yay for Cherie! Her collection is awesome. I've heard a few things from women who write sci-fi. I've never experienced that prejudice myself, but I've gotten a lot of flak from men (and a few women) because I write romance. I agree with you that a good story is a good story no matter who wrote it and no matter the genre.

Morgan said...

The prejudice blows my mind... SO STRANGE to me that it even still happens in today's world. Thanks for the post, Alex.

And YES, very proud and excited for Cherie!

Cherie Reich said...

Thank you, Christine! I couldn't have created such an awesome collection without help from my CPs.

Aww, thank you, Morgan! :D

farawayeyes said...

After living for three years where I was the minority, I can attest to the fact that prejudice is alive and well in the world. It's sad that in a medium like writing the work is not judged by it's own merits, rather than the gender, race or any other attributes of the author. a most unfortunate situation.

As far as disrespect being shown to women on any level, this is a sad comment on the world we live in. There is no excuse for bad behavior but, perhaps women 'who have come along way baby' asked for some of the disrespect in their demand for equality. The time may be coming when we all need to think about who we want to be and who we really are. All that said, PLEASE put the tar and feathers away; I am a woman who would like to be cherished and protected and at the very least treated with respect, but that's not always how the world works. I do strive to earn that respect both as a woman and as a person.

Gwen Gardner said...

I hadn't thought about gender bias in sci fi. It's not the genre I normally read. I'll bet Mary Pax can comment on this topic, though. But you're right, disrespecting someone because of gender is just wrong.

M Pax said...

I'm glad you put reminders to visit you at the end... it's great for absentminded folks like me. :)

I think there is some gender bias in SF. With that said, most of my fans seem to be men and they know I'm a woman. I don't really hide it. It is why I use my first initial instead of my full name, however.

And I have noted the division between the hard stuff and the space opera and softer sides. Heaven forbid there's some aspect of girl in there [romance].

It's the one genre that's mostly male, and perhaps it's one of the old boys clubs reluctant to make way for the other 1/2 of the planet.

The Desert Rocks said...

"That'll do pig," is the cutest line. I love Babe!

The Desert Rocks said...

"That'll do pig," is the cutest line. I love Babe!

Lydia Kang said...

Sexism is everywhere. So sad that good writers have to deal with it too.

Alex J. Cavanaugh said...

Faraway, no tar and feathers - I understand your point.

Mary, perhaps. There is definitely a bias toward the softer science fiction. Fortunately, we have a lot of fans there as well.

Sarah Allen said...

Gaaahhh! Babe is one of my favorite movies ever!!! Such a good one, and that quote is so sweet :)

Sarah Allen
(From Sarah, With Joy)

Mel Chesley said...

You know, there seems to be gender bias in just about every genre. Except romance. Women swoon over a man who can write a good romance story, go figure. But most men have the mind that women should stick to romance and leave the 'real writing' to the men. Sadly, I have come across this in my life. Which is why I strictly use my initials in writing. I was once told by my English teachers in high school, that when writing my resume, use your initials if it is a job where men dominate. That way I'm on equal footing until the face to face interview and won't be passed over because I'm a woman. So it sort of stuck with me all these years later in writing. Going by Mel instead of Melissa is a small part of that as well. Usually, the nickname that's short for Melissa is Missy and I can't stand being called Missy. (No offense to other Missy's out there!)
Sorry to focus so much on one aspect of this post. It just gets to me that some men still think women need to remain barefoot and pregnant. And in the kitchen.

Belle said...

Wow, I'm surprised at the bigotry against women in science fiction writing! I have stupidly thought this new generation would be beyond that. It is a terrible thing to treat anyone like that.

Animal movie? I remember loving Benji and I don't think there was any dialog in that picture!

Empty Nest Insider said...

Great points Damyanti! The same can be true about men who think that women aren't funny. Congrats to Cherie! Terrific quote Alex!

Julie

Birgit said...

I love Babe-It is such a good film so glad you picked that quote. I am very sad to hear about the prejudice. I alwsy thought that women would be treated highly especially in this genre since I think of science fiction as ahead of one's time sort of speak. I think of Star Trek and how progressive and positive that show (and the films) are. I would have thought that type of thinking would carry into every aspect of thought but I guess I am wrong and that is a shame. Whoever displays such meaningless and sad ways toward women should wake up and get a kick in the ass. I would love to have them change into a woman and then be treated like they treat women...maybe then they would get a brain. remember that Twilight Zone episode where a man who was a bigot became the person who he was prejudiced against. They even made that tv episode into the film of the same name. Sad to hear

Lynda R Young said...

Clearly I've been living under a rock because I had no idea about bias towards women in scifi. I knew about the bias between hightech, hardcore scifi and, say, space opera. But you get that too between literary and genre fiction.

congrats to Cherie!

Editors At Work said...

Excellent post today, Alex!

Congrats to Cherie!
Nas

klahanie said...

Delighted to note that Cherie's book is now available. That's a fascinating blurb.

What's this, women write science fiction. Yes, I'm kidding. I really, much like you, haven't got time for prejudice of any form. Disrespecting anybody due to ignorance and indifference is just plain wrong. Well said, my friend.

My favourite animal movie is "Fluke".

Shall check out Damyanti. I hope I can now comment on her site.

Gary

The Words Crafter said...

I thought I read somewhere that JK Rowling was advised to use initials. Kind of bothers me. I had no idea it was so prevalent or vicious. Sad...

Men of Foxwick sounds interesting and congratulations on the reviews!

Your Babe quote is a classic. I think The Black Stallion is possibly the most beautiful cinematography in filmdom. Cass Ole was one gorgeous animal...

Michael Di Gesu said...

HI, Alex,

Really surprised and shocked about the prejudice. I never understood why. We are all creative and human beings. We all deserve respect for what we do and how we do it.

Congrats to Cherie... I featured her today as well. Such intriguing stories.

Congrats on the awesome reviews, Alex!

I love animals and animal movies. I just saw Hotel for Dogs... super cute with a message. Two foster kids have to hide out their dog in an abandoned hotel. More stray and homeless residents 'check in"... A very heartfelt and sweet story.

Not much into Zombies, so I haven't seen pontypool.

Off to read your reviews.

Alex J. Cavanaugh said...

Mel, real women can write just as well as men. And I don't want any pregnant women!

Belle, there was, but not anything I remember.

Birgit, I remember that episode. And you would think we've moved past that by now.

Words, I don't think I've ever seen that film.

Chuck said...

So let me get this straight...that writer was disparaged because she was a women who wrote science fiction.

Excuse me...those haters are assholes.

And you know it takes a lot to use that language on your blog Alex, but this called for bluntness. Sorry.

I agree with you 100%.

Andrew Leon said...

There are some genres where the bias is reversed, but there is still a lot of bias against women in writing fields, which is just wrong.

Cathy Keaton said...

Thanks for being old-fashioned, Alex! We need more good men in this world like you. It'd be a WAY better place. :)

Tyrean Martinson said...

Favorite Animal Movie - would the Rescuers or Kung Fu Panda count?

I've heard of bias in the scifi field both of the high tech and the male v. female variety - I don't get it. I would read scifi by either gender, and the reality is I'm a bit more biased towards less "tech" scifi - however, I have read the techie stuff too.
Bias and prejudice is just wrong anywhere.

Go Cherie!!! I've already downloaded her book - but haven't read it yet. I'm going through a "library" phase and reading stuff I've gotten from there and then homeschool prep books for next year.

VR Barkowski said...

Hope this doesn't offend anyone. As a rule, I prefer books with male protagonists and therefore tend to read books penned by men. This doesn't mean women are less-talented as writers. Obviously I don't believe that, and discrimination in any form is reprehensible. Frankly, it surprises me to see it evidenced in the SciFi genre. In Mystery, much of the market is made up of cozies written specifically to appeal to a female audience, I can almost … ALMOST understand the bias. But SciFi??? Unacceptable.

And before I forget: Congrats to Cherie!

VR Barkowski

YVONNE LEWIS: said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ella said...

Congrats to Cherie! Off to check out your interviews..so fun!

Disrespect is just plain mean! It makes me sad...

tfwalsh said...

So sad to think people still are gender biased when it comes to written books. I really don't get it.

A Beer For The Shower said...

And here I am, part of a writer's group that's about 90% women, and always feeling self conscious that we're two of very, very few men, and hoping that the women take us seriously as writers and don't think we're just two young lunkheads. Meanwhile, the thought that a woman can't write a particular genre just because she's a woman is ridiculous.

rebeccabradleycrime.com said...

Congratulations to Cherie!

I am gobsmacked about the genre thing. I write crime and attend a crime festival every year and writers and reader are together mixing in the bar area. It's the most lovely place to be. There are some great women crime writers in all sub genres of crime as well and they are as equally highly regarded in their profession as the men and by the men. It's just a lovely place. Mention sockpuppets however and you set off a whole different chain of events....

Donna Hole said...

Wow, a post mostly written by Alex; and editorial too. Good to hear your "voice" Alex.

That Babe quote works well, lol.

You know, I think every genre has its step-child sub genre's. Its the nature of humans to exalt one thing by tearing down another. Luckily, not everyone feels that way, just a few vocal egoists.

.......dhole

mooderino said...

I don't think it's a problem with sci-fi in particular. There are still plenty of men who feel women are inferior. Just because a man is a great artist doesn't necessarily make him a great human being.

mood

celeste holloway said...

Old fashioned is good. It's great to know a few men still respect women! I've never heard of the gender bias against women in sci-fi, but I bet there's a little bit of a prejudice against men in the romance genre, except Nicholas Sparks. I like Charlotte's web, so here's my quote from Charlotte: "Oh, Wilbur... don't you know what you've already done? You made me your friend and in doing so, you made a spider beautiful to everyone in that barn." :)

Mark Koopmans said...

Wow, interesting...

And here was me thinking we writers could get along because this journey is so stinkin' hard anyway.

Ah well... but I'm still going to write my historical romance, so there :)

No, I am. Honest. WIP #2 begins in 11 days :)

Carolyn Brown said...

Wow, this has been a hot debate! Certainly opens up some lines of thought!

Alex J. Cavanaugh said...

No Chuck, you called it right!

Thanks, Cathy.

Tyrean, I'm not much for the tech stuff either. And I almost cheated and named an animated film, but it was supposed to be a live action animal movie.

VR, I probably read more books written by men, but that's due to the genres I read more than anything.

Yvonne, what happened?

Brandon and Bryan, online we are outnumbered as well.

Rebecca, great to know everyone gets along in your genre.

Donna, I'm working on putting me back into my posts. And your observation is spot-on.

Celeste, good quote!

Mark, go for it!

J.L. Murphey said...

I saw this film. Great cause of zombis. The twists made the movie.

Bish Denham said...

Considering that the likes of J.K. Rowling, Jane Yolen, Ursula K. Leguin, Anne McCaffrey and James Tiptree, Jr (yes, she was woman) have won either Hugos or Nebulas it seems ridiculous that women are still being looked down upon. And if you take a look at the list of Hugo/Nebula winners there are 40 or more women who have won for everything from short stories to novels. How many awards do women have to get before they are recognized and accepted as being valid contributors to the genre of science fiction? What are these men afraid of? The competition? (Okay, I'll get off my soup box now.)

Babe is one of my all time favorite movies.

L. Diane Wolfe said...

One of my favorite authors was Anne McCaffrey and she wrote science fiction. (Among other genres.) I wonder how much flack she had to deal with?

Theresa Milstein said...

I'm off to visit Amlokiblogs!

J.C. Martin said...

Yay for Cherie's new book! As for gender prejudice, men and women are on level pegging in crime, but I've heard that there is some bias in the neighbouring thriller genre. Seems like men think the genre of guns and tanks and warfare is no place for a woman (even though one of the top thriller writers is Stella Rimington, ex-director of MI5).

Then again, I wonder how women would react to a man writing chick lit?

And my favourite animal movie quote?

"Just keep swimmin', just keep swimmin'..."

Cherie Reich said...

Thank you, Julie (Empty Nest Insider)!

Thank you, Lynda! :)

Thank you, Nas!

Aww, thanks, Klahanie!

Thank you, The Words Crafter. :)

Thank you so much, Michael (Di Gesu)!

Thank you, Tyrean! I hope you enjoy it when you get a chance to read it. :)

Aww, thanks VR!

Thank you, Ella!

Thank you, Rebecca!

Thank you, J.C.! :)

Rhonda said...

It's late, I'm tired and the only animal movie quote I can think of is “That’ll do, pig.” Loved tha CasaFire feature.

Mark Means said...

I guess I just don't get how people could treat a fellow author poorly, regardless of gender. I mean, we're all in this together, right?

The female imagination is just as fertile (if not moreso) as a male's. The mind boggles...

I haven't even head of Pontypool, but will have to give it a look. Sounds like an interesting take on the genre.

Deniz Bevan said...

yay for Cherie!

The closest i ever got to that sort of discrimination was friends (female friends!) on finding out I was writing romance, asking if I had "heaving bosoms" in the story... Sometimes people disparage genres and authors without even knowing what they're talking about, sadly.

Leovi said...

The radio broadcast of The War of the Worlds by Orson Wells was great!

Emilyann Girdner said...

Jack's review really was beautiful. Thank you for sharing. Also, big congrats to Cherie :)

Susan Oloier said...

Alex, you're a respectful and all-around great guy. There should be more men like you in the world. Honestly.

Patricia Stoltey said...

Apparently there was a major bias against female authors in the mystery genre for a long time. That's why Sisters in Crime was formed. I haven't noticed any problem at any of the mystery conventions I've attended over the years.

Alex J. Cavanaugh said...

Bish, I guess a lot more awards. I know, it's wrong.

JC, I guess the male romance writers get a little flack. And good quote.

Thanks, Rhonda!

Mark, maybe even moreso!

Deniz, they obviously didn't know a thing.

Susan, thanks!

Patricia, glad that has changed.

Dafeenah said...

I read those blogs from the author who had issues at the Cons. I was very surprised. I don't do much sci fi so I hadn't really known that existed.

Tina said...

I'm a woman, I write sci-fi. Didn't know anyone was going to give me a hard time for that. I feel I'm just as qualified as the next guy...I'm a science geek and math nerd. Isn't that enough?
Tina @ Life is Good

Elizabeth Twist said...

Lydia Kang pretty much summed it up ("sexism is everywhere"), but to add to the conversation: not sure about fantasy? Women seem to have a toehold there, although more in the paranormal side than the epic epicness area.

In horror, which is a focus of my writing, there seems to be a strange schizoid attitude toward women writers and directors. The majority seems to think that women can't write good horror because flowers sugar spice and frailty. There is a vocal minority whoever, who seems to hold the opposite opinion because childbirth hormones menstruation womb / tomb?

I can only speak for myself: I write horror because fear is the single most salient emotion of our time and maybe all time. *Shrug.*

Lydia Kang is right.

Catherine Stine said...

Alex, I like your attitude toward female writers, and writers in general. I have heard about the sci-fi bias against women sci-fi authors, but I have yet to attend a sci-fi convention as an author, so I have no first-hand experience of this. (Though I may be at this fall's NYC Comicon "manning" a table). There's a pretty cool org for women authors of spec fiction called Broad Universe. I signed onto it, and they have lots of good conventions, so maybe I'll make my way to one of those too.

Medeia Sharif said...

I'll check out the link.

I love Cherie's writing.

I don't watch too many animal movies, so I can't think of one.

John Wiswell said...

Everything that's led up to the #sfcivility fight has been disheartening for me. Often I don't know about bigotry against female authors because I don't experience it, and don't tolerate it very well. The two big SFWA blow-ups in the last month were eye-openers as to how bad some of it still is, and while it's nice to know the scope, not nearly as awful as I'm led to believe it is in comics and film, it is something I'm glad our cultural pocket is trying to deal with. Honestly, one misogynist horror story from any con is too much.

Pat Tillett said...

I've never even heard of Pontypool, so thanks for the warning!

Unfortunately there are elitists, sexists and plain old A-Holes in every aspect of life. Her book looks good and it sounds good. Nothing else should matter...

Kirsten said...

And I thought with writing I could finally be judged by what I can do, and not by my gender! After once again briefly considering a pseudonym, I think I'll stick with my real name and gender and forge ahead.
Thank you for bringing this to the forefront though. I still believe that fair minded, thoughtful and kind men (you included!) far outnumber those of lesser character.

Christi Moné Marie said...

Sadly, I think there has always been prejudice and discrimination and always will be in any field. Just part of human nature. Is it wrong? Absolutely! I don't know why people can't just all get along peacefully and embrace what other humans have to offer. I think it's sad and shows how small that person is. I say if someone has the guts and know how to contribute to a certain genre or field, they should go for it! Why not?

jamieayres.com said...

Not sure if Up would qualify, but I love the dog in that movie . . . SQUIRREL!!! That's me in a nutshell ;-)

Jamie Gibbs said...

The spec fic gender issue really gets my dander up. Being a misogynist is one thing, but using genres that I'm passionate about to justify misogyny just isn't cricket.

Cynthia said...

I find it very unfortunate when I hear about discrimination against female authors in any area. What should ultimately matter is just what's on the page, not the gender of who put it there.

Cherie Reich said...

Thank you, Deniz and Emilyann!

*blushes* Thanks, Medeia!

Gossip_Grl said...

Great discussion about gender bias. I personally would not attempt to write anything Sci-Fi but I agree as long as it is a good story who cares who wrote it? There is not only a gender bias toward certain genre there is a sort bias toward anyone who mentions they want to be a writer. It is almost as if there is a secret society that picks I say that because of email I have received Anyway... Good post!

Jai Joshi said...

I'm so glad you talked about this, Alex. The gender bias in the sci-fi genre is quite pronounced. I think that's mainly because even now, most scientists and researchers are considered to be men, even if that's not at all the case. There's a perception that it's a man's domain.

I haven't seen the same bias in other genres, although it is true that the romance genre is considered to be almost exclusively women. And look how it is looked down upon, as if people who write and read romance are less that people who write and read other genres.

Jai

Debra McKellan said...

"I look at you and I'm home." Dory from Finding Nemo. :D

I don't know if there is discrimination in fantasy...I don't think there is.

D.G. Hudson said...

It takes more effort for a female science fiction writer. Males have dominated the field for a while. Old notions die hard.

Where are those suffragettes when we need them?

Hilary Melton-Butcher said...

Hi Alex .. so many women authors changed their names over time - still do today .. but gosh people are biased, sad - but true.

Going to come back to read Damyanti's feature .. once my visitor has departed from this damp country!

Love the Babe quote .. I still don't think I've seen it .. but the Ponypool sounded interesting .. till you let us know the reveal isn't so clever .. perhaps it'll catch on ..

Cheers Hilary

Nancy Thompson said...

I don't see bias in my genre. In fact, I think women make up the majority of authors out there, and readers as well. Maybe the bias in SF is because it is still one of the last remaining male-dominated genres & some feel threatened by the overall movement of women authors. And you, my dear, dear friend, are the ultimate gentleman. The whole world would be a better place if more men were like you.

Julie Sondra Decker said...

Yes, very frustrating when people think women "don't belong" in science fiction or other speculative genres. All I can think of is that the people who make a stink about it think their boys' club is being invaded or that their trade is being devalued if more people (including people of other genders) are welcomed into it as readers and writers. Bottom line is that if you believe the integrity of your genre depends on exclusivity based on gender, you're really showing your sexist ideals. If men are welcomed until proven to be poor writers, while women are assumed to be poor writers of the genre until proven otherwise (and then treated like an exception to the rule rather than evidence that there is no rule), we know where you really stand.

Jeff Hargett said...

No one should be belittled, regardless of genre or gender. Now you've got two more cents to play with. :)

Beverly Fox said...

I LOVED Pontypool, though I think it would have been better received if it hadn't been marketed as a zombie film. I found the idea absolutely fascinating and so much better than a reboot of zombies would have been, anyway.